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Blue dempsey

9 years 1 month ago #27035 by jdubcichlids
Replied by jdubcichlids on topic Blue dempsey
so is a blue gene jack dempsey is a JD that throws electric blues?

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9 years 2 months ago #26820 by dragonkeeper
Replied by dragonkeeper on topic Blue dempsey

they are a silly looking fish.....


Interesting comment!

DragonKeeper
~Retired President~

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9 years 2 months ago #26819 by newworld
Replied by newworld on topic Blue dempsey
they are a silly looking fish.....

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9 years 2 months ago #26818 by jlehner
Replied by jlehner on topic Blue dempsey
Hi Scott
    I have all  4 articles that TFH has issued on EBJD"s.  Going back to 2000-2009 .Does anyone want a copy of all of these?  Let me know and I"ll bring them to the next meeting.  Jim

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9 years 2 months ago #26805 by baldtaxguy
Replied by baldtaxguy on topic Blue dempsey
Thanks to both of you.  Good info.

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9 years 2 months ago - 9 years 2 months ago #26804 by Nuchal Man
Replied by Nuchal Man on topic Blue dempsey
Mike, you're right about the origins, they were developed in South America somewhere. I to have seen the article. I'm not sayingthere isn't a possiblity that this isn't a color morph, I just know I haven't seen enough evidence to prove to me it is. They are so different from a regular Jack Dempsey through their development that something just seems off to me. Although you don't see albino fish commonly in the wild, you can see them, they've been seen. Xanthism is also extremely rare in the wild for some species, but it is seen sometimes. I'd think that a fish with such a wide range in nature, that many researchers and hobbyists have seen and is so popular in the aquarium trade like a Jack Dempsey it would have been seen somewhere down the road by now. Of course, there is the possibility that the mutation only occurs in a single population of Jd's, but I believe the guy who found the 'mutation' didn't have wild or traceable f# fish, just an aquarium strain. I've also seen various EBJD and they come in all different shapes and color patterns. The mouths are different, body depth, etc. Could it be poor line breeding, sure, but the overall variation within the EBJD fry of a brood makes me think it's a hybrid. Overall the differences between development, differences within EBJD of the same brood, and the lethal recessive make me think this is a hybrid, but until a concrete paper that is peer reviewed is written on this, anyone could be right.

I have a confession. I'm a cichlaholic.
Last edit: 9 years 2 months ago by .

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9 years 2 months ago - 9 years 2 months ago #26802 by mikeg2929
Replied by mikeg2929 on topic Blue dempsey
You never will see one in the wild. Several (5?) years ago Tropical Fish Hobbyist had the run down on these fish.  There was a pair in........argentina, perhaps, that threw some odd looking fish.  Selective breeding, and hard work fixed the strain.  For years, the only place to get them, I am pretty sure, was TUIC in NJ.  

Thats what I recall.  I think the rumor about these being a cross, is just that, a rumor.  I think it is akin to an albino - you never see them in the wild, but they do exist.
Last edit: 9 years 2 months ago by .

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9 years 2 months ago - 9 years 2 months ago #26801 by Nuchal Man
Replied by Nuchal Man on topic Blue dempsey
Scott,

What I've heard from a few people is that it is crossed with a tetracanthus. I believe I first heard this from Conkel. It seems plausible as the EBJD fry have a very Cuban cichlid esque spotted pattern on their sides.

Conkel told me a scientist he knew did ,mitochondrial (inherited from the female) DNA work on them and it wound upcoming back as Nandopsis tetracanthus. On the other hand, the EBJD guys say that they've had MitoDNA and Nuclear DNA done and it comes back as a pure Jack Dempsey. All in all, no peer reviewed articles, so these really mean nothing.

Rusty and Juan Miguel (In a Cichlid News article) have both said they believe it is a hybrid and not a naturally occurring fish. One would think that the gene if naturally occurring in the wild would be present in at least some wild fish, normal JD (as the EBJD are weaker fish), as a recessive. Of all the Jack Dempseys collected from the wild and bred, there is not one case of it occurring from fry, except from the guy who created the fish. Also, from what I've heard, it is a lethal recessive, if two EBJD breed, none of the fry live. You're hard pressed to find this naturally occurring in the wild.

I think everyone would agree that EBJD and JD juveniles look very different and they develop color patterns quite differently as well. I don't know what their fry look like though, and I guess I could analyze them if I got a fry sample of EBJD.

My .02 cents.

I have a confession. I'm a cichlaholic.
Last edit: 9 years 2 months ago by .

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9 years 2 months ago #26799 by baldtaxguy
Blue dempsey was created by baldtaxguy
Sam - I recall that one of our speakers at a club meeting had commented on the possible cross of species that make up the blue dempsey.  I cannot recall the details you had mentioned, and if it was said to you in confidence, no need to id the speaker, but can you recount the details?  What two species were suspected or identified?  I thought one was tetracanthus, but as I age, I lose recall.

The reason I raise it was Rusty's comment last meeting re: never seeing a blue dempsey in the wild, and this triggered the possible cross you had mentioned.  Any details you can share?  Thanks-

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